Georgia O'Keefe
- Jun 14
- 29 min read

Transatlantic Teaching: a Conversation with Transitioning High School Teacher, Li

From the UK to Indiana, Li has taught high school health and social care in London for 8 years in a prestigious cosmopolitan school. She has spent the last decade teaching culinary classes in inner city -> rural districts in the US for the last few years. In addition to her work in the classroom, she has also established an international travel chapter with over 150 students and families to venture abroad.

Li discusses the separation of personal & professional life in Europe vs America, taking care of your mental health (see: Sunday Scaries), and transparency around the financial realities of a 2 teacher household. Li speaks to her absolute joy she has found in the classroom, shares stories of mixing her passion of travel and teaching, and her desire for more growth opportunities within education.

This episode brings up topics ranging from traveling with educational tours, balancing postpartum depression and going back to the classroom, & why she has decided to leave the classroom. Li is a remarkable individual - 1st generation college student inspiring her students and families in the classroom & abroad (her inspirational student memory will give you chills). Her stories will definitely leave you more enlightened on the realities many teachers are facing, and much more inspired about the future realities of educators.

Georgia

Hello Fellow educators and welcome to Making the Grade podcast. We are your host, Christine and Georgia, and we are so excited you're tuning in to share your teacher voice. Today we will be talking with our guest, Lee, about teacher anxiety and mental health and the reality of teacher salaries,

Christine

Teachers. Have you ever felt like it's been really hard to find that perfect balance of taking care of yourself, your students, loved ones? We hear so much about self-care, like what does that really mean? Our guest, Lee, is going to talk about all of these things and more in our episode today. Thanks so much for coming on the show.

Thank you so much. I'm super excited and it, it's a pleasure to share my story and my journey with your guests.

Georgia

We are so excited to have you here. I think all of our listeners are gonna feel very inspired in listening to everything you have to say. So some fun facts about Lee. She's been teaching for 14 years. She loves traveling and true crime and she loves to clean. So immediately we knew we all had a lot in common. We've never met Lee in real life. We've only met her virtually, but we can tell we have some very similar interests and some similar feelings about teaching. Lee found our show through a Facebook group and we are super excited to get her, get to know her more, both as a person and a teacher. We're so thankful that she's here and we usually like to start our shows with something fun. So Lee, are you up for a little game?

I am. I love games. Let's, let's get started.

Georgia

Awesome.

Christine

So I'm kind of curious, do you, I, I'm gonna change this a little bit just cuz of what I just found out about you. Do you think that food in the UK is better or Food in America?

I, I've lived here now for 10 years and people in England are gonna be really mad. But I love the food here and I think the reason why is because it's, it's really creamy. There's a lot of cheese and peanut butter, which we don't use. However, one thing that we do have in the uk, which you do not have here, in my opinion, is a really good Indian curry. So where I used to live, I lived in London and there was a strip which was called Brick Lane. And it's really unique because you could walk down this strip and there's like 20 Indian restaurants and everyone comes out and they haggle for you to come in. So you know, you'll have the owner, I'll be like, come into my restaurant and I'll give you like 20 papa dos and like a Indian curry for 10, like 10 pounds.

And then you'll go somewhere else and the other person will also come out and say, no, I'll give you this deal. So it's really unique cuz you will not have that here. And so I think in terms of those experiences, I do love the uk. We have some really good fish and chips and recipe peas, which you don't have here in Indian Curry. But I also love the food here. So I love Mexican food. You're not gonna have much Mexican food over there, like the casseroles. We don't have any casseroles on the crock pot. I've never used a crock pot until I came here. Now I love the crock pot so just

Christine

Throw It all in. It's all done.

We don't, we don't do crock pot in the UK so it's really cool. I, I like,

Georgia

It's so insightful. I love it.

Oh, I just said little things

Christine

I would love if I were walking down the street and people came out and were like, have a coffee here. No, come here, I'll give you a better deal. Come have my coffee. I'm sure

It's, it's, it's really cool. It's just that you have to be there to kind see it. It's so awesome and, and you can get us some really good deals. So yeah, if you ever get to go go to Brooklyn, it's awesome.

Georgia

Awesome. I would love to, it's on my bucket list for sure.

I'm Going this year. I'm taking some kids. I'm excited.

Georgia

Sergey and I, my fiance, we're trying to figure out a way to get our van overseas so that we can just do traveling on a whole nother level with our van. So, I mean I'm sure there's way we just haven't looked into it. Look

A ferry maybe a ferry or maybe ferry. Maybe ferry cross, I dunno. Something like that. Yeah.

Christine

On a similar note then, in terms of travel, are you a pack a suitcase and check it person or backpack on the flight? Carry on?

I think when I was in my twenties my circumstances were different cause I didn't have any, have my children so we, I packed just to keep the cost down. And being a teacher, you know, a salary isn't great so I didn't have that much extra disposable income. Now with my children, I have to check and I, and I love buying. So when I was in Italy last year, you know I was a group leader and they, everyone jokes cause I'm my shopping addiction. I love, like, I just love clothes, I love European clothes. I think they just, the style is very unique. I love it. So from Italy I went crazy shopping. So I think it depends on where I'm going.

Christine

Yeah, no I I, I totally agree. I used to make it a challenge of like, you know, oh I'm staying here for a week. I'm still fitting everything in my backpack. Watch me now. No, mine's.

I love shopping. Mine's the opposite. I'm like, I, I wanna bring lots of items home. So I always do a check, check bag and then, then I end. I think last time I brought so much that I was pouring like all these designer knockoff bags I got from Italy in like other travelers luggage cause I didn't have enough space.

Georgia

That's so funny. Okay, switching gears a bit, a teacher related, would you rather, and this is piggybacking on our conversation before. Hmm. So I know what you're gonna say I think, but okay. Would you rather write sub plans or do report cards?

That's a really hard one. I would probably say do report cards just because writing sub-plans what I found is, is really frustrating. So I'll write these really elaborate sub-plans and I return after, you know, I'd taken the day off and the sub has not followed the plans. So for example, I wrote these sub plans, I teach a culinary class and you know, I think they were, the students were meant to be looking at the functions of ingredients. And the sub who's a friend of mine, I really love her. She let the kids bake cookies and make popcorn and that was not in my sub plans. So I think personally what I found that the sub plans I do, they, the person that's teaching them it normally is not to my expectation report cards. Even though they take me a while cause I have 105 students on my caseload. Wow. I'd rather do, I know I have a lot of students. I'd rather do that because I know each student individually and it gives me pa joy, you know, writing positive comments so the parents can see, you know, this is what my student, my child is doing. So I'd, I'd rather do that.

Georgia

Okay. Good answer.

Christine

I agree. Yeah, I would rather do that too than sub plans. So detailed and long.

Georgia

Yeah,

I don't get followed. So frustrating, frustrated.

Georgia

I think I agree also. Ah, well thanks for sharing all that. It's always so fun to get to know our guests in a different way before we get into all of the nitty gritty of education. Yeah. But do you wanna tell us a bit about what you're doing for work now and what teaching is like in Indiana where, you know it's a different part of the country and we're so curious to, to learn more about your experiences?

Yeah, so I'll kind of do a quick bio of my background if that works for you. So I'm originally from the UK and I taught there for eight years before I moved over here to Indiana. And I was teaching in one of the top schools in London. Fun fact, Megan Merkel actually visited my school a couple of years ago cause it's so prestigious and you know, we're doing amazing work there. So you know, teaching in a I top 10 school in London, I taught health and social care, which was 16 to 18 year olds who were getting ready to make their journey to college. So I was in charge of that program and then I moved over here and I wasn't sure how long it was gonna take me to find a job here cuz I am, you know, from a different country. I was really fortunate within my first week of landing here, I was able to get a sub sub job.

I was gonna go in and observe a teacher and I ended up teaching the lesson and it, I think I had to make an angel food cake. I've never made an angel food cake in my life. Never heard of it. I know it was really funny. And I practiced the day before, made this cake and I think they were so impressed with my style that they offered me like a maternity position. So I would taught at local school in Indiana and then from there taught in various other schools taught in inner city school, which was very different to the uk. And I think I was really naive cause I thought the students were gonna listen and I think we just were having a strong accent. It was the opposite. And then I moved to a rural school and I was teaching there up until this year and I taught a class called Preparing for College and Careers, but focused predominantly on the culinary SI side. So teaching in Indiana, I would say is very different from the UK just because, you know, I taught in London very cosmopolitan, very diverse. So the students I I was interacting with very diverse population of students. And then now I'm in a small town.

I, I'd never heard of four h I didn't know what that was. And you know, people were telling me about four H and i, I dunno what it is. So it's just really interesting. I've learned a lot and yeah, I've met some really amazing students who have been fantastic. So I think it doesn't matter where you are, you can make a great impact just by loving and loving the kids. And like the other, I would say main differences are in the UK we go, you teach and then you leave. I we're, it's very conservative so it's very hands off, you know, no personal relationships over here. People go to their spelling bees and their outside events. It's kinda crazy.

Christine

Interesting. Yeah,

I'm like, I don't have time for that. But people are very committed over here. Yeah. So as an educator I think they, there's an expected to, you know, to go to your students like football games and spelling bees and we don't have that in the uk. That is not an expectation. No, it's really interesting.

Christine

That is And

Georgia

To come in early and leave late. Yes. That's 100% an expectation. Yes,

I would agree with you. Interesting. Interesting. It's, yeah, it's, it's really interesting. Yeah. So I, I, that's a little bit, I would say those are some subtle differences I've, I've observed coming over here.

Christine

I wonder if that observation kind of says a lot about the lack of personal professional boundaries. Maybe the reason why so many teachers are leaving the field feeling really overwhelmed, really kinda struggling with taking care of themselves. If they're putting all this pressure to, oh I have to go to the spelling bee, I have to show up at, you know, this extra, you're right. There are a lot of, of outside of the standard classroom events and activities that maybe add,

I would agree. And I would say like teaching a subject like mine, which is hands-on, there's an expectation where the, they the, you know, the principal and the community does expect the teachers that are doing more hands-on subjects such as mine to do those clubs after school. So to do an art club or to do a family and consumer science club and you know, we have to do that in our own time. And I just think, you know, a hands-on subject, there's an expectation to do that and that's where you get burnout. Yeah,

Christine

No, that, that makes a lot of sense. So that kind of leads well into my next question for you. So you were speaking about that separation of the personal and professional life in you were kind of speaking about the connection between education specifically and self-care, mental health, taking care of yourself. What, what can you say about that as an educator, you know, of your level experiencing these things?

I feel like for me personally, it's, it's gone worse over the years. You know, I am a c season tenured educator and it's hard to find the balance between family and teaching. And I'll give you some examples. You know, and I'm sure most teachers feel this and they can relate to this. The Sunday Blues, every Sunday I would spend four or five hours planning my, my lessons for the week. I'm a, I'm a perfectionist so I, I know I can make it easier on myself, but I like all my lessons to be dynamic. Now I want my, I I'm not, I don't lecture. That's not my style. You know, I want the students to be engaged in discussion and to have that ha have that discourse. So I do put a lot of pressure on myself by making all these dynamic, engaging lessons. And I think for elementary teachers it's even harder.

Now. I only have two preps. They have five or six preps. My husband was an elementary teacher and so Sundays will be very stressful because I, I couldn't enjoy time with my family. I don't spend time either grading or marking lesson plans for the, for the next day copying, luckily, you know, with technology that's made it easier. But doing all of that, the other example, and I kind of said this earlier, you know, when, when do we say enough is enough? When I, and I said shared this earlier with you ladies, when I was having my, my first born my son, I gave birth and then my husband had to go back into his classroom that day. And I had had really severe postpartum depression cuz I, I was in a new country, I couldn't drive. I was in this really remote area, I didn't know anyone.

And the, the climate, I'm in Indiana and it's really cold. So I was really severely depressed. And I said to my husband, please don't leave me. I don't go. He said, I have to, the kids have ivory testing, I have to go in. So my husband ended up going to his class so he could get his sub plans done. Okay. And he could do iRead testing for the week. So I was alone that entire week. And I remember crying and saying to the doctor, I, I don't wanna go home cuz I don't have any, I, there's no one who can take care of me. And my, my hu husband doesn't, didn't have enough sick days left. So that in the goal was to kind of hang on until I have spring break. And that was really challenging. I feel like in other professions and in the UK it's very different.

In the uk if I was to give birth, I'd get six months off maternity leave, full pay. And then I'd get another six months off half pay. So I could take a year off. My husband would also get paternity leave. I worked right up until I gave birth. That would never happen in the uk. Like they, they you, that would not happen. It doesn't happen. So I just like the subtle differences in, in, in countries and you know, what, what they can offer. So I think those have been the biggest challenges for me as an educator. And there's been times where my daughter has been sick and I haven't had, I don't have enough sick leave built in. So I've had to give her medicine and send her to daycare because I just, I can't keep a heart. And I think that's what's really challenging as an educator is just that. And it's hard and you figure out a way to make it work and you know, you put your, your profession before your own family. And I, and I've done that and I, I shouldn't be doing that but, but I have cuz that's what you expected to do. Cause that's the status quo.

Georgia

Thank you for sharing all of that. Yeah, I, you know, I don't know, I think every district is a little bit different, but I know many people that for their maternity leave they had to use their sick time and, and that always confused me because yeah, you know, you're not sick, you just had a baby. Those are two different things.

It's crazy.

Georgia

Yeah, I just think the realities of what teachers go through on a personal level when they are putting their professions ahead of their personal lives, the story you just shared about giving birth, like those are profound things that are actually happening that many people who aren't in the teaching profession don't know about. So we really appreciate you sharing it because we think that it's important that more people are aware of things like this and that story might really resonate with another teacher who's going through something similar. I I know that I will. So

You're welcome.

Georgia

Thank You. Brave and sharing.

You're welcome. And I think it's really important to, you know, if I was to go back, I, if I was to go back and like change the rhetoric, you know, I wish I'd spoken up and I wish I'd said to, you know, my husband, Hey, you know, I need help, I need your support. But I felt like, you know, both, both of us being educators, you know, we owe it to our students that are doing those. I read testing, you know, for him to be there. So it is just internal conflict there. And I'm sure that educators, when it comes to standardized testing, you know, they, they feel that too.

Georgia

Do you think that everything you're speaking about now, the anxiety that comes a lot of times with teaching the mental health, do you think all of that is playing a role in why you have decided to leave the classroom? Why your husband has and why other amazing teachers like yourself are are leaving as well? I,

I believe there's a lot of factors and I like, for me personally, my husband, the reason why he left is the, the salary here where we are salary increases. They don't happen that often. And if they do happen, maybe it's like a thousand a year. And I kind of said this earlier, you know, I've been an educator for last 15 years. I just hit 50,000. And if you, in look at most jobs, most entry level jobs, you are starring at 50,000. So if you think about all my experience, if I was in another industry, I sh I sh I'd probably be making 70, 80,000. I also have to think about retirement and these are the things I didn't consider. But having children, I want my children to be able to do the, the sports and the activities. And my husband had to leave education. He loved kids.

He, he loves kids and he's a big kid at heart and he's so, so good. He misses if he could go back into teaching, he would, but it's not sustainable for our family. Especially with inflation, you can't have two educators teaching. And I said this earlier, my husband and my husband and I were having a discussion yesterday. He felt sad cuz when I talked to my son about what career he wants, I told him he can't do teaching. Like you are not being a teacher. And that's the reality. And I wanna be transparent with, with my own children and I wanna give them the data. And the data shows that, you know, if you compare teaching to other professions in terms of income, the income is a lot lower. And I want my son to have to travel. I want my son to not have the anxiety, not have mental health is issues that are related to, to teaching and the guilt.

And I want, I want the same for my daughter. I also want them to progress just in terms of career growth. There's not much here where we are. It's either you are an educator or your admin and that's it. You can't do anything else. And I think with me stepping out of this profession, I am like, I can do so much more. I love being in the classroom. I love making an impact on o o on the children that I've taught. But I'm looking for professional and personal growth and where I am, I feel like it's kind of stunted. And I, I believe those are the reasons why educators are leaving the profession. I was speaking to human resource individual on Friday and we were talking just about teaching and how when he and I asked him why he left, he said he was forced out. This was like eight, eight years ago when teaching was so competitive and it was really hard to get a teaching job because you'd have one job posting that'd be 200 applicants, right? Yeah. Now, now no one wants to go into teaching.

Christine

I know when Georgia and I first started in the field, that's what it was like, especially in, in Massachusetts. It, I remember the first job application that I put in to, you know, to become a teacher. I was in my dream school district and there were, I think it was like a thousand applicants, I wanna say

Like crazy.

Christine

Yeah. In the first round and the second round and the first, yes. So it, there has been this massive shift and I think for all the reasons that you just said, you know, that you were, were hitting on the work-life balance, the lack of professional growth, the, the financial aspect of it. You know, there, it it is, it is kind of like pigeonholing yourself a little bit. It feels I

Would agree. And I think it's also, I would, I would also, I also think it's other people's perceptions on you because, and I feel like that as I'm, you know, I, I'm on this like career growth career journey and I, I've had this in, in, you know, couple of interviews that I've done, like interviews going great, I had this in my last experience. So I interviewed for a director position. It was going really well. I thought, you know, I'm really connected with the team. Then I met the, you know, the, the vp and as soon as the VP realized that I was an educator, it was, I felt like she switched.

Christine

Interesting.

Feel like, you know, she, she told me to keep looking for other jobs. Wow. And I felt, you know, and I kind of, I recognized this individual. I did say, Hey, I had your daughter, you know, we went to this school and as soon as I felt like as soon as she realized I was an educator attitude completely switched towards me. And I feel like just, you know, as teachers we can do so much. We have all these transferrable skills. But when you are looking, seeking employment, it's really hard because, you know, being, it's you in that

Box. Yes. And you're like, I can do so much more though. But I'm not just educate, educated. It's like a swimmer. They're not just a swimmer, you know, they can do so much. So I, I found that really challenging just the, the transitioning out because of the labeling. You know, you're your a teacher, but you know, you, you babysit. It's really frustrating.

Georgia

Yeah. Oh, you babysit. Yeah.

Georgia

One I used to hate hearing. Yes.

Yeah. My, my, my colleague described that when he was meeting, we were meeting families. He was talking about the summer program that I've taught previously and he was just like describing the program to the family and he was like, yeah, it's like a babysitting service. And I just kinda looked at him and inside I was just thinking I'm not just a baby. Like that's how you're describing the summer school program where we have qualified teachers teaching it as like a babysitting club.

Georgia

Yeah. Sorry. Also if, if you're babysitting, shouldn't you be getting paid 15 per kid?

That would be nice. Yep. Yep. That would be great. Yep.

Christine

So thinking of all of the factors you were talking about of why teachers seem to be leaving the profession and numbers are just dwindling for new teachers coming into the profession, what, which of the things that you spoke about would you say would be the biggest factor or the one thing that could change that might make you and other people consider going back to the classroom? Or what would make it a little better out of all of those things?

It's really hard. I would say two, I've got two things. Increase the salary.

You have to increase the salary because the salary does not match inflation and standards of living that has to happen. And number two, mental health, very important. And don't make people feel guilty if they take the day off. You know, I think there's just so much pressure on teachers now if they take the day off where you have to get the sub plans done and you know, standardized testing and you know, as an educator ha meeting those learning objectives and having all these diverse activities and having all these individual education plans and meeting all of those. I just think take some of that pressure off the teachers. Those two are big factors. Pay and addressing mental health,

I think very important cuz there's no tools in place to, to help with that. And you almost made feel guilty if you do take the day off cuz then you'll have these emails. I don't know where you are, but you know, we, we have so many emails coming from the admin team saying we don't have enough subs for the day. Can you please sub? So many of the educators in my, in my school, we end up subbing during our prep because there's not enough subs to cover those individuals that are absent. And then you feel guilty cuz you're like, I can't take the day off if someone has to cover my class.

Georgia

100%. I resonate with that a lot there. Yeah. Really briefly, brief story last year with my last year in the classroom and I taught preschool, so I had an assistant teacher. Yeah. And cause of the sub shortage that teacher was pulled every day Yes. To go teach each other classes. Yes. So I was teaching 18 very tiny humans by myself. And when I would use my earned sick time for a mental health day because I needed it, I would need to feel very guilty about that. And, and that's a problem.

I I would agree. And I think the expectation that, you know, during your prep you have, you know, there's a, you know, urgent, you know, cause we get all these emails who can cover this period, who can cover this period if you don't volunteer, you know, you kind of feel like you have to volunteer. Right. And I volunteered so many times during my, during my planning period where I've covered other teachers. What other profession would you know, you know, if during your lunchtime they'll ask you to go do their shift, that's not gonna happen. Right.

Christine

No, you're you're totally right. And I love the, the connection between what, you know, we talk about, oh, mental health is affected in teaching in caring professions when you care for others in nursing. But you actually broke down a really tangible thing of, and I never thought about it until you just explained it in that way of don't be made to feel guilty for taking a mental health day. It's so interesting because I mean the, the last district that I taught in that's, it's very typical to have this stipulation. I think throughout all Massachusetts schools, for the most part you get, you know, the 15 sick days. But it's specified that that is for taking time away, for being sick. What does sick entail? There's no language in that about, you know, that covers, if you need to take a mental health day, it's like, oh, do I need to say I I have to see the doctor today. Or can I just be honest and say I I need a break. You know? Yeah. Like that is such a tangible connection of when you need a break you need to be able to, to say that and not feel like it's gonna be a problem. And I think that there's this edge of, you know, I, I need a break. Oh, but I'm the person who evaluates you and do you, you know, like, are you sick? Can you take us second? I, I don't know. It's, it's a really That was a really good point.

Thank you.

Georgia

And it's, it's interesting, you know, you spoke to what other profession would have you cover their shift. Yes. But also there are most other professions have self-care days. Yes. Built into their, their, you know, quality of life for their employees, which is separate from you have pneumonia and you're in bed and you can't come to work. Mental health is health and if it's not gonna count and I'm doing air quotes count as a sick day, then it needs to be it's own thing.

I would agree. And I think, you know, especially with the teacher shortage, a mental health does relate to, I don't put pressure on teachers to cover other teachers and, you know, and the example that you gave similar predicament mean last year I was in a class where my class sizes are huge typically because the subject that I teach, they have to take it in order for them to graduate 31, 32 kids in a class that, so that's my a that's that, those are my numbers lot. It's a lot. And then, you know, five or six of them have like special educational needs. I had an aide in there, but similar to situation to you, he'd always get pulled out because there, you know, we don't have enough resources and there I am meant to be cooking with these kids. I need additional help. And it's just super tough. And for me, my subject, it was challenging cuz I had so many students, I cannot cook with 32 kids if I have six kitchens. So I had additional work because I would split my class up, half of them would cook, the other half would be doing this project. I had to make a video beforehand.

The less I'm teaching essentially two different lessons. These kids are cooking, these kids are watching this video that I've made prior on what I want them to complete. And I'm ma I'm managing two different things. Okay, you kids, you're cooking. Okay, I'm gonna step outside. How are you kids behaving? So it's just a la of pressure there. And, and like in my subject, I had to do the food shopping cuz it's a culinary class and no compensation for that. I'd have to go in my own time, go get the groceries, come back, put those groceries away in my own time, do the wash, you know, washing their dish rags in my own time. So I, I, I know that a lot of teachers are getting burnt out and we're having all these mental health issues just because of the extra responsibilities in other professions. You are compensated for your time if you work beyond your hour, you know, your standard hours teaching profession. As we said, you know, we do work behind our, beyond our standard hours and there is no compensation. And people think that because we have the summers off, you know, that's compensation. We need the suburbs off. Right.

Georgia

Right. We need, so Lee I think that a lot of teachers are listening to this right now and completely resonating with a lot of the things that you're saying. What advice would you have for teachers that are in similar positions that you were in or are in right now? What, what would you tell them? I know that there's probably a lot, but if you could think of one thing or a couple of things.

Okay. My advice for new teachers, or teachers that are in a similar position to me is, number one, don't disregard your mental health because that is so important and make time for yourself. So I love to exercise and I walk every single day cuz that gives me some clarity and also have, try and have a work-life balance. So when I was an educator, I, this was hard, but I did it. I worked through my lunch and ne I never had a lunch, but I also worked through the, through my prep. But that meant that I didn't have to take any work home. I didn't, I did not wanna be working past three 30 or 4:00 PM cause I wanna spend time with my family. So that meant working through those like my lunch, my prep, so I didn't have to take work home. Also work smart, not hard. It's okay to show a educational movie. It, it's okay to use technology to get those quizzes graded. I don't feel guilty about that. So I, at first I didn't, you know, our district introduced technology and I wasn't sure about that. I cried when they said, Hey, you have to use cameras. I remember crying to my husband and I'm like, please teach me. He's just like, you're such a baby. And, and like now I love it.

Christine

I was gonna say Georgia is the can queen love and she's taught me love. I just learned everything within the last month. But she can, I love her if you need help, I love having

So much. And I think being a seasoned teacher, don't be scared to embrace technology because it can make your life so much easier. And not having to carry papers home and do as much as you can online. So like all those quizzes, I put them all online so I didn't have to grade them. And I take like a completion grade and like stepping out of teaching now, you know, I felt like I had to grade every single piece that they did. And you don't have to, you don't have to. It's okay to cut the, those papers and throw them in the trash. That's okay. Don't tell the kids that.

Christine

No, but that's everything you're saying. It, it sounds like is kind of all of these mindful steps that you've taken in throughout your career to avoid burnout. And it's, it's kind of a lot of these things I, I didn't realize a lot of what you're saying until I was a few years in of like, oh, your point about not taking work home with you. It totally started, I didn't start doing that until a few years in, but it made a really big difference. So I think everyone will benefit from even trying one of those things.

And I think also like project-based learning, you know, I felt like I had to, at the beginning, I was the one, I was the master of knowledge and I had to impart the knowledge onto the students. I've changed my teaching strategy now and I feel like some of my most successful lessons are where I have those wondering questions for the students. They have to do the research, they have to present their information, they have more, more ownership of that. So I have a flipped classroom now where I am not the expert and the onus is on them to teach each other. And I feel like that's more productive and that has helped the burnout for me because I am not spending ages coming up with these elaborate lessons and you know, the kids are coming up with the answers. And I think our job as educators is to equip them to think for themselves.

Christine

Exactly. Yeah. I love that. Now the, the whole point of, of educating is for, for them to go out into the world and make their mind up about how they want to go through it. I love it. No, thank you. So now the big question. Yes. So you've done a lot of different things in your personal and professional life. How would you say you're finding success now? Defining it for yourself? How are you making the grade when you started versus now?

I would say the success for me, and I feel like, you know, I, when you speak to, when I speak to other individuals, you know, they, they say that I'm inspiring Now I don't see that for, I see that, but I assume I am. I would say that success for me, number one was moving to a different country and learning a new completely new education system in England, everything is standardized. Every single subject is standardized and it's all target driven over here. I had to change my teaching style so it could meet the needs of my students. And I was able to successfully do that. I would say success also means my community where I'm at. They've never traveled. They have not left the us. My husband had never left the US. I thought that was crazy. Didn't have a passport. I'm like, that is nuts. But you know, I spearheaded a travel program at my school and I'm only the only middle school teacher here that's done that. And I wasn't sure if I was gonna have any buy-in buy, you know, I've, I've done four international travel trips now. Wow. I've taken I would say 150 students and families all over the world. I'm really proud of that. That's incredible.

Thank you. And I feel like, you know, I've changed their, their story and their narrative and you know, to, you know, we talk about empathy, but true empathy is when you can go to a different country and you know, realize hey, you know, there's other people out there and they do things different differently. But it's also really cool. So I would say that's really successful. And the other thing that I would say is really successful, my current position, I work with migrant students who are transient. So in terms of opportunities for them, they're very limited. I've helped many students write scholarships and we found out recently that one of my students received a full right scholarship and I was as a part of, of his journey. So success for me is changing the rhetoric and the story of these individuals because they're humans. And if I can change their stories so they can have a better outcome, then I've been successful.

Georgia

That's so sweet.

Thank you.

Georgia

Yeah, thank you. And I, I will start off by saying you are inspiring. Yes, definitely.

Thank you

Georgia

I think that, yeah, we tend to, people tell us things about ourselves and we're like, no, no, what are you talking about? But I think learning to embrace the compliments people give us and appreciate them, which it sounds like you're doing so thank you.

And I think it's only been like stepping outside the classroom that has made me realize like, I've done all these really cool things. Right. I think as, as an educator, you, you don't see that cuz you just, you know, you can, because there is no, you know, in other professions you'll have the bonus pay and the accolade and in, I feel like in the teaching profession, you can keep being an highly efficient educator and maybe I'll get like a $200 Christmas bonus and then so, so you know, you don't see your value. I I know personally for me, I didn't see my value until I stepped out. So I was just like, because you're not, you're not recognized for those things.

Georgia

It's really profound to say that you see your value and you stepped out. Yeah. Looking back on your time in the classroom, is there one favorite moment? Either because it was amazing or funny, just one favorite moment that kind of stands out to you?

Yeah, I have one amazing moment. This will always stand out for me. Cuz this scar story was very similar to mine. So when I was teaching in England, there was a girl, we'll say her name Sarah and she, we, I was helping with college applications and I remember looking her and she was like, had a 4.0 gpa, super academic, involved in ton of extracurricular activities and she wasn't applying. And I sat down with her and I said, you know, why are you not applying for college because you have so much potential. And she was really interested in the medical field and she told me that her parents wouldn't let her because she was Muslim and her parents did not believe in further education. That's very similar to my own story. And I was lucky cause I had some really strong champions who changed the course of my life.

And I knew that I was not gonna let that happen for that young lady. So I just said, let me take care of her. And she was like, no, my parents aren't gonna listen. And I've tried speaking with them, they're really adamant now. So I brought her parents in. I got my head mistress to also sit down with them. And after months of cultivating that, that relationship with the parents, she was finally able to go. And I'm still in contact with her now. She's like one of the top doctors in the uk And that would not have happened if I did not take the time to speak with that, with that, with Sarah and realize her potential and, and actually step in and be her champion. And that's something that I'm really proud of.

Christine

Wow. That's, I just got chills hearing that. Can you imagine there'd be one less doctor in the world if you didn't have a conversation? Yeah,

And I just think, you know, I, I, I can resonate cause my pa my story is the same. My parents did not wanna go being a female, you know, they want you to be a housewife. That's why my parents wanted, they wanted her to get married, arrange marriage. And that was, that was me. And then I kind of broke away from that. And I was a first generation female ever in my household to go to college and get an education. And Sarah was the same. And she's really thriving. She's helped many patients now make full recovery. She's amazing. And I'm just glad that I was a small, I made a small imprint on her journey.

Christine

That's, that's incredible. Well, Lee, we've so enjoyed talking to you today. I don't wanna stop, but I know,

Thank you so much. I I really enjoyed it as well. It's been fantastic. I wasn't sure how this was gonna go, but, you know, thank you for inspiring other teachers and I love listening to podcasts, so hopefully we can inspire and teach, you know, that's, that's the essence of teaching is education.

Georgia

Yeah. I think, you know, our goal with interviewing people like yourself is to, like you said, inspire teachers, give teachers hope, give them resources. But I never really thought about how inspiring it could be for Christine and I as well to be meeting new people and hearing their stories. So we're really grateful that we met you and have heard your story and have a new friend. Yes.

Thank you.

Georgia

All right, well thank you so much, Lee. This has been great

Thank you so much.

Georgia

So great. We're so glad that you found us through Facebook and grateful that you are on the show, sharing your story.

Thank you so much. I really enjoyed my time with you too. If there's other teachers out there shout out to you, you're, and the profession is so lucky to have you keep hanging in there and you're doing a great job for our future children.

Georgia

That wraps up our show for today. Remember to always listen to your teacher voice and measure success with your own ruler. Thanks so much for taking the time to listen. If you like what you heard today, share with a teacher who needs this in their life and don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe to our show. If you like what you heard.

Transatlantic Teaching: a Conversation with Transitioning High School Teacher, Li

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